GLENN'S PODCASTS!
Tuesday, September 27, 2005
HOUSE/HOME/EMERGING/TRADITIONAL CHURCH FELLOWSHIP & MATURITY ISSUES
Please forgive the extensive title here!! :)
One would think there would at least be a -tendency- towards closer fellowship and openness in a smaller, closer-knit, regularly gathered home fellowship (due to all of these points).
This is not to say extreme and great koinonia cannot or does not happen in trad. church settings, they do, I've seen it plenty.
On one hand, the closer you are in terms of geography, time and face-to-face, the more you at least have fellowship. Yet to expect fellowship alone -determines- spiritual growth would be a mistake: and I tell you from long experience in close, daily community living.
It is quite possible to overstate fellowship. And of course, there is accountable fellowship and in reality, nice people smiling and/or hurt people crying/angry people griping and no real fruit is automatically produced in their lives simply by being together.
Fellowship can be simply doing a picnic or playing tennis or skateboarding together. None of that's bad or wrong. But those whom the Bible says "spoke together" were chatting about God, about what He had to say, about things of importance beyond mere social matters.
We can talk all day about all sorts of stuff and never grow spiritually because that's not our aim. Should it be?
I would suggest that modelling Christ and biblical discipleship, mentoring and teaching the same (note I place teaching last cuz I can get that from a book or online, places beyond any real accountability or close relationship) coupled with application in the real-life everyday is the solution to our deepest need.
If these things are not core for a local fellowship, the "local church model" one chooses or creates isn't going to answer to need. All the fellowship in the world ain't gonna foster individual spiritual depth if these core ingredients aren't in the mix.
If closer fellowship alone secured biblical maturity, or if raw solid teaching alone did- we'd have a LOT more fruitful individuals AND congregations and I daresay the world itself would look a lot different re. the fruit.
Of course the whole Church IS bearing fruit, plenty of it, don't get me wrong!
My point is that while structure and style is often helpful in terms of promotion of spiritual maturity, many of us have learned over time that neither structure nor even a great deal more fellowship -in and of themselves- automatically produce mature, loving disciples of Jesus Christ.
Please forgive the extensive title here!! :)
One would think there would at least be a -tendency- towards closer fellowship and openness in a smaller, closer-knit, regularly gathered home fellowship (due to all of these points).
This is not to say extreme and great koinonia cannot or does not happen in trad. church settings, they do, I've seen it plenty.
On one hand, the closer you are in terms of geography, time and face-to-face, the more you at least have fellowship. Yet to expect fellowship alone -determines- spiritual growth would be a mistake: and I tell you from long experience in close, daily community living.
It is quite possible to overstate fellowship. And of course, there is accountable fellowship and in reality, nice people smiling and/or hurt people crying/angry people griping and no real fruit is automatically produced in their lives simply by being together.
Fellowship can be simply doing a picnic or playing tennis or skateboarding together. None of that's bad or wrong. But those whom the Bible says "spoke together" were chatting about God, about what He had to say, about things of importance beyond mere social matters.
We can talk all day about all sorts of stuff and never grow spiritually because that's not our aim. Should it be?
I would suggest that modelling Christ and biblical discipleship, mentoring and teaching the same (note I place teaching last cuz I can get that from a book or online, places beyond any real accountability or close relationship) coupled with application in the real-life everyday is the solution to our deepest need.
If these things are not core for a local fellowship, the "local church model" one chooses or creates isn't going to answer to need. All the fellowship in the world ain't gonna foster individual spiritual depth if these core ingredients aren't in the mix.
If closer fellowship alone secured biblical maturity, or if raw solid teaching alone did- we'd have a LOT more fruitful individuals AND congregations and I daresay the world itself would look a lot different re. the fruit.
Of course the whole Church IS bearing fruit, plenty of it, don't get me wrong!
My point is that while structure and style is often helpful in terms of promotion of spiritual maturity, many of us have learned over time that neither structure nor even a great deal more fellowship -in and of themselves- automatically produce mature, loving disciples of Jesus Christ.
Sunday, September 25, 2005
REASONS TO SKIP "CHURCH"
I think it's irrelevant.
I'm tired. I'm bored. I don't get anything out of it. I don't like the music. I'm tired of hearing stuff I already know. I was [doing this, that, whatever] late on Saturday [or whenever] and ain't going.
Some of these reasons can at times, hold water. The obvious issue in each is that they all begin with the "I".
If "it's not about you" (or me) as Rick Warren said... then WHY go or WHY not go to a gathering of Christians where the Bible is taught, corporate worship is shared and we get reminded (like the delivery or not, dig the atmosphere or not, etc., etc.) about stuff we need to be reminded of?(unless we're -always- living spiritually mature, walking in the Spirit, clearly growing in Christ and in witness to those around us OF Jesus and His reality in our lives... but everyone reading this is certainly doing that all the time... me too :) :) :(
Of COURSE church is US, not a building. Certainly we can "do church" a zillion ways on other days and times, not just Sunday morning. In fact, we BETTER be or we're not biblical. BUT................. come on, some of us are spiritual flakes, wimps and judges, some of us are flat-out lazy, some just don't want to bother doing much other than we they -feel- like doing on a given day or time. So why bother?
Because God and His people are there and you and I need to be uncomfortable or we're never going to grow up much less be a light that reflects the life of Jesus to others.
Spiritual plateaus are NOT the will of God for His people and His people need to link up around Jesus Christ with others who are focused on HIM, not simply their personal comfort. Of course, we can judge others for showing up on Sunday with that attitude while we're doing the very same thing by NOT showing up.
Show up to grow up.
Fact is, if some of us were as in love with God and His people as we are with our own view of ourselves we'd look a lot more like Jesus and a lot less like the shallow "Christians" we are.
I'm truly convinced the first two words in discipleship and spiritual growth are "show up".
MUST you? Of course not.
If you didn't show up for rehearsal you wouldn't be in a band with most serious musicians very long. Name the area of art or expertise... it's the same deal, no matter.
But maybe we don't have to be all that serious about God and His Word, His will, His people or those in need of our gifts and talents who still think Christians and the Good News are irrelevant.
If we keep blowing off Christ-focused, disciple-based fellowship and teaching with the people of God, there's an excellent chance we'll prove them right.
I think it's irrelevant.
I'm tired. I'm bored. I don't get anything out of it. I don't like the music. I'm tired of hearing stuff I already know. I was [doing this, that, whatever] late on Saturday [or whenever] and ain't going.
Some of these reasons can at times, hold water. The obvious issue in each is that they all begin with the "I".
If "it's not about you" (or me) as Rick Warren said... then WHY go or WHY not go to a gathering of Christians where the Bible is taught, corporate worship is shared and we get reminded (like the delivery or not, dig the atmosphere or not, etc., etc.) about stuff we need to be reminded of?(unless we're -always- living spiritually mature, walking in the Spirit, clearly growing in Christ and in witness to those around us OF Jesus and His reality in our lives... but everyone reading this is certainly doing that all the time... me too :) :) :(
Of COURSE church is US, not a building. Certainly we can "do church" a zillion ways on other days and times, not just Sunday morning. In fact, we BETTER be or we're not biblical. BUT................. come on, some of us are spiritual flakes, wimps and judges, some of us are flat-out lazy, some just don't want to bother doing much other than we they -feel- like doing on a given day or time. So why bother?
Because God and His people are there and you and I need to be uncomfortable or we're never going to grow up much less be a light that reflects the life of Jesus to others.
Spiritual plateaus are NOT the will of God for His people and His people need to link up around Jesus Christ with others who are focused on HIM, not simply their personal comfort. Of course, we can judge others for showing up on Sunday with that attitude while we're doing the very same thing by NOT showing up.
Show up to grow up.
Fact is, if some of us were as in love with God and His people as we are with our own view of ourselves we'd look a lot more like Jesus and a lot less like the shallow "Christians" we are.
I'm truly convinced the first two words in discipleship and spiritual growth are "show up".
MUST you? Of course not.
If you didn't show up for rehearsal you wouldn't be in a band with most serious musicians very long. Name the area of art or expertise... it's the same deal, no matter.
But maybe we don't have to be all that serious about God and His Word, His will, His people or those in need of our gifts and talents who still think Christians and the Good News are irrelevant.
If we keep blowing off Christ-focused, disciple-based fellowship and teaching with the people of God, there's an excellent chance we'll prove them right.
Saturday, September 24, 2005
THE EMBRACED
It seems that on one hand, with the massive divorce rate, a lot of people living together outside of marriage, multiple partners over time, children being born into all of this, is it any wonder why "marriage vows" or for that matter, any "vows" have nearly rendered words like that about useless in the minds of many younger people?
Politicians, often law enforcement officials, church leaders and a host of other professionals whom were once considered at least "typically truthful" people are just not looked at like that today.
With the internet's proliferation of information (even though much of it can be/should be/is considered suspect as well...) it's not like people can't discover what happened in history or for that matter in the last thirty minutes. It pops up right after a mouse click.
So on one side of the coin we might think words are so suspect and trusting people such a fragile if not dangerous thing that a lot of us would just stop getting "deep" or very intimate about how we really think, feel or what has truly happened in our lives in terms of major pain, scars, bitterness, anger and basic distrust-trust.
While many in both older AND younger generations have taken that "I'm not giving anything away about myself... nobody can be trusted" sort of shallow approach to talking, at the very same time we're all fellowshipping like never before!
Younger and even older gens are linked constantly- with people. In fact, I believe fellowship (from "koinonia lite" to real depth) has become THE point through which the sharing of the Good News of Jesus Christ has become most fruitful. I'm not saying old-style preaching is totally wiped out, or the usefullness of it, rather that it seems to me and apparently a lot of people, that one-on-one as well as small-group evangelism, certainly in Western cultures- is the core method of witness and discipleship.
The "talking-head"/raw lecture approach is being more and more replaced by individuals gathering in groups to discuss, and I mean "group-process" information, varied views about the topics of interest to them and so on.
I think the reason much of this is happening is obvious: one hard angle is that we're desperate for meaning, meaningful relationships in a sea of shipwrecked relationships... while the other hard angle is that this business of really "knowing and being deeply known by others" is so risky that many still keep the conversation as light, shallow and downright flaky as possible. Some things never change :)
But serious seekers, serious evangelists and serious disciplers and disciples are going to seek out relationships, information and conversation as well as cultural and subcultural forms that enhance deeper group-life. Cold individualism or living a desperate hermit's existance is clearly death-on-the-hoof, and people in younger as well as older generations know it.
And so it goes... the cycle of Truth (which always brings us face to face with the true God in the end) keeps moving, the Spirit of truth keeps blowing, the people of God keep seeking and the seekers keep finding relationship. Good thing too, because relationship is the only thing we're leaving this world with -or without.
The brilliant and beautiful reality is this: for followers of Jesus, true fellowship with God and one another is eternal. This is a love worth the cost.
It seems that on one hand, with the massive divorce rate, a lot of people living together outside of marriage, multiple partners over time, children being born into all of this, is it any wonder why "marriage vows" or for that matter, any "vows" have nearly rendered words like that about useless in the minds of many younger people?
Politicians, often law enforcement officials, church leaders and a host of other professionals whom were once considered at least "typically truthful" people are just not looked at like that today.
With the internet's proliferation of information (even though much of it can be/should be/is considered suspect as well...) it's not like people can't discover what happened in history or for that matter in the last thirty minutes. It pops up right after a mouse click.
So on one side of the coin we might think words are so suspect and trusting people such a fragile if not dangerous thing that a lot of us would just stop getting "deep" or very intimate about how we really think, feel or what has truly happened in our lives in terms of major pain, scars, bitterness, anger and basic distrust-trust.
While many in both older AND younger generations have taken that "I'm not giving anything away about myself... nobody can be trusted" sort of shallow approach to talking, at the very same time we're all fellowshipping like never before!
Younger and even older gens are linked constantly- with people. In fact, I believe fellowship (from "koinonia lite" to real depth) has become THE point through which the sharing of the Good News of Jesus Christ has become most fruitful. I'm not saying old-style preaching is totally wiped out, or the usefullness of it, rather that it seems to me and apparently a lot of people, that one-on-one as well as small-group evangelism, certainly in Western cultures- is the core method of witness and discipleship.
The "talking-head"/raw lecture approach is being more and more replaced by individuals gathering in groups to discuss, and I mean "group-process" information, varied views about the topics of interest to them and so on.
I think the reason much of this is happening is obvious: one hard angle is that we're desperate for meaning, meaningful relationships in a sea of shipwrecked relationships... while the other hard angle is that this business of really "knowing and being deeply known by others" is so risky that many still keep the conversation as light, shallow and downright flaky as possible. Some things never change :)
But serious seekers, serious evangelists and serious disciplers and disciples are going to seek out relationships, information and conversation as well as cultural and subcultural forms that enhance deeper group-life. Cold individualism or living a desperate hermit's existance is clearly death-on-the-hoof, and people in younger as well as older generations know it.
And so it goes... the cycle of Truth (which always brings us face to face with the true God in the end) keeps moving, the Spirit of truth keeps blowing, the people of God keep seeking and the seekers keep finding relationship. Good thing too, because relationship is the only thing we're leaving this world with -or without.
The brilliant and beautiful reality is this: for followers of Jesus, true fellowship with God and one another is eternal. This is a love worth the cost.
Friday, September 16, 2005
AVERAGES?
And now a spin-off from my friend's always-edifying daily email
devotional ("God's Promise").
An unknown source has said-
If Satan cannot get you to outright backslide, he will settle for
making you an ineffective Christian.
I couldn't agree more.
Now- right off, a disclaimer and warning to both myself and the reader:
It is easy to judge sharply and harshly, easy to be a self-righteous
critic of others' spiritual dullness, easy to judge others in light of
your own (as Tozer called them) "religious irritations", reaaaalllll easy to
simply do the arm-chair quick sizing-up of the dry, dead, self-preoccupied
Christians. Don't.
Few of us are doing much more in terms of actual loving God and neighbor
anymore than "they" are...
Further, unless you live -very- closely to people you really don't know
what they're doing in terms of serving God and others. Even less, do
we know what's in their thoughts, the particular burdens they carry and
more, all of which often affect the sort of serving they do or do not
accomplish.
Now back to my rant:
A.W. Tozer also said, "Refuse to be average".
As I consider this and the opening quote, I ask myself what it is that
the enemy uses to try to make me "ineffective". What would "ineffective"
mean for you? Not for your neighbor or co-worker or brother or sister in
Christ, but YOU?
Food for thought. And if you find yourself with a sour stomach, I bet
the Holy Spirit directly and via His Word will tell you what to do. Perhaps
"repent" and "give yourselves to humble tasks" will surface?
It's always easier to mouth off about the problems and slackness in the
Church at large and local churches in particular... than it is to -in love-
serve and set an example that says more than words ever can.
Amen... and "Oh me"!!
And now a spin-off from my friend's always-edifying daily email
devotional ("God's Promise").
An unknown source has said-
If Satan cannot get you to outright backslide, he will settle for
making you an ineffective Christian.
I couldn't agree more.
Now- right off, a disclaimer and warning to both myself and the reader:
It is easy to judge sharply and harshly, easy to be a self-righteous
critic of others' spiritual dullness, easy to judge others in light of
your own (as Tozer called them) "religious irritations", reaaaalllll easy to
simply do the arm-chair quick sizing-up of the dry, dead, self-preoccupied
Christians. Don't.
Few of us are doing much more in terms of actual loving God and neighbor
anymore than "they" are...
Further, unless you live -very- closely to people you really don't know
what they're doing in terms of serving God and others. Even less, do
we know what's in their thoughts, the particular burdens they carry and
more, all of which often affect the sort of serving they do or do not
accomplish.
Now back to my rant:
A.W. Tozer also said, "Refuse to be average".
As I consider this and the opening quote, I ask myself what it is that
the enemy uses to try to make me "ineffective". What would "ineffective"
mean for you? Not for your neighbor or co-worker or brother or sister in
Christ, but YOU?
Food for thought. And if you find yourself with a sour stomach, I bet
the Holy Spirit directly and via His Word will tell you what to do. Perhaps
"repent" and "give yourselves to humble tasks" will surface?
It's always easier to mouth off about the problems and slackness in the
Church at large and local churches in particular... than it is to -in love-
serve and set an example that says more than words ever can.
Amen... and "Oh me"!!
Tuesday, September 13, 2005
A FEW GOOD BOOKS
Just found a cool paperback at a yard sale... called "Holiness: A Guide for Beginners" by Hubert Van Zeller. He rocks, plain and simple.
Did a men's retreat roughly based on "The Disciplines of a Godly Man" by R. Kent Hughes, also a good read.
Finally, at another yard sale (hey, Wendi and I just had our annual vacation... a really good and restful one!!) found a little but excellent writ by Charles (Chuck) Swindoll called simply, "Leadership".
And you know, I REALLY have been enjoying the Bible (wink, wink!)... I wish you well in your devotional times!
Just found a cool paperback at a yard sale... called "Holiness: A Guide for Beginners" by Hubert Van Zeller. He rocks, plain and simple.
Did a men's retreat roughly based on "The Disciplines of a Godly Man" by R. Kent Hughes, also a good read.
Finally, at another yard sale (hey, Wendi and I just had our annual vacation... a really good and restful one!!) found a little but excellent writ by Charles (Chuck) Swindoll called simply, "Leadership".
And you know, I REALLY have been enjoying the Bible (wink, wink!)... I wish you well in your devotional times!
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