A recent discussion brought to mind what I've posted before on my
website and, perhaps, here in the blogsite... can't recall and I
don't have time to check at the moment :)
For years now people have asked me if there are other Christian
communities, or in the old days, Jesus People like us... and of
course, the answer was and is, yes -and- no!
Like any large group of Christians much less the whole Christian
Church on earth, the deal is that it really depends on the
individual people, the general local congregation, the pastor or
leadership team and such- as to who's a jerk and who's loving, who's
fairly bibical and who's more in love with a given tradition, etc.,
etc..
One group of
---fill-in-the-name-of-the-denomination-or-association-of-fellowships-here---
are cool and the next may be a nearly total wash.
The person I was conversing with said they felt impatient with slow
change processes in churches to move beyond their comfort zones.
Here is a slice of my commentary on that:
"I hear you and agree- and of course any/all congregations
regardless of their culture/subculture/etc. are all rather tempted
to a "comfort zone" mentality.
I know of (and have heard and rebuked) a fair number of people who
about HATE the very best manifestation of a local church in their
area and refuse to either start one themselves or join that one due
more to their own "comfort zone" than anything else.
For years people have said they'd rather not bother if it isn't like
going to (our) Cornerstone Festival. Sorry- I have patience but
nearly zero tolerance for that attitude (not saying -you- have it,
don't think that's what I mean here!!!) because what they're telling
me- after a good deal of questioning on my part, is that they really
aren't COMFORTABLE with the culture, "style" of preaching, service,
music and such.
I KNOW this may sound weird, but for the most part, I just don't
care about any of that. It's all just surface to me.
I'm not saying I don't have MY comfort zones or preferences, I
surely do, yet- the issue is if the leaders AND at least a decent
minority of the congregation are truly seeking Father, Son and
Spirit, are searching/teaching/preaching and trying in good
conscience to apply the Book of God to their daily choices and
relationships. If they do have a statement of faith and basic
doctrinal positions, mission statements and such, that they're
actually trying (mind you, not necessarily making huge inroads,
wildly producing fruit or the like) to live them out. If all this is
in place, and they're generally open-hearted, good-attitude sorts of
folks, I'm in! The rest is gravy.
I mean, to me, for me, JPUSA (the fellowship I serve on the
leadership team with) is exactly this. It has plenty of holes,
flakes and a fair bit of cluelessness as well as plain old sin in
it, just like any group of Christians. But again, people's music,
hair styles and even most preaching styles are simply NOT -content-
nor all that much even addressed in the New Testament so...
I'm not saying every Christian should simply dig every flavor of ice
cream and that's that, I'm saying I personally am not hardwired to
one or two flavors "or I ain't buyin' it"!!
I do think there'd be a lot more peace, productive spiritual growth
and outreach, and a lot less complaining in congregations if more
people had more of this sort of view of things, but I'm no fool
about that happening any time soon.
I agree local churches typically change REAL slowly. There are a lot
of reasons, many quite sensible as to why that is, but that's sure
another post, heh"!
Immediately after I wrote this, I read the next and final paragraph
of my friend's post:
"...until I look at myself and therein lies the problem".
My response to that:
"Wow. You sure went for it here! I must say that mostly, that's my
problem too: "me".
Well, I love the Book of Acts phrase, "And GREAT grace was upon them
ALL"(my emphasis)".
It was an interesting discussion, one worth having I think.
My final comment in this particular blog re. that grace for when the
church drives us nuts:
We sure need it, and we sure need to pass more of it on, especially
when folks don't do it the way we want it done.
I was the youngest, by eight years, of three kids in a home that
began (at least, began) with a Mom and a Dad. My parents, brother
and sister were largely but not entirely responsible for my welfare.
It's the "not entirely" part that I'm focused on now.
My mentors/disciplers/accountability people/pastors are largely (but
less than my parents, perhaps -more- like my actual bro. and sis.
when I lived at home) responsible for a measure of my spiritual
welfare, noticing when I'm hitting the wall, perhaps even if I'm
doing goofy economic stuff which would affect myself and my family,
etc.. I believe this is not unreasonable.
Of course, the question of how much they know/can know/what I let
'em know/what they can substantiate about my life and choices all
loom large in how they discern and work/don't work with me for my
benefit and that of my family.
Should the poor man be given tools AND basic needs for his life,
family and such, to get off the floor and sustain fruitful life?
Absolutely. For how long, with what stipulations and at what point
does the person(s) helping with X assistance say "Bro., let's help
you get schooling, training, a solid job, a safe place to live" and
so forth, as opposed to allowing them to simply hang out and do the
"kid at home with a full fridge which the parents stock" sort of
lifestyle?
This poses MANY questions and answers and I do not think "one size
fits all".
The Christian community and our various outreach ministries deal and
have dealt with such things for many years. The problems and
solutions are available daily to those who choose to get directly
involved. But it ain't so simple when we -all- face the limits of
our resources. All but God, are indeed limited.
Further, some demand what they ought not, others don't ask for as
much as they truly need. It takes a closer look to know, discern,
give what you should to the particular person/people. It's this that
I think many in the Christian church don't really deal with all that
much. So it's easy to just get bummed or truly angry. Neither rank
anger -or- self-pity work the righteousness and love of God into
society. Giving up isn't an option for a serious disciple of Jesus
Christ.
In point of fact, I was responsible for my own repentance and
certainly in part, spiritual growth. It indeed happened (and is
still happening) when I submitted to wise, gracious AND challenging
folks who gently but firmly led me down the biblical path of growth.
It was about me wanting, needing to change- taking personal
responsibility for my own decisions and actions. That was my choice,
nobody else's. It's the same today as when I was first saved.
When I was very young, I was fed. As I got older, I learned how to
feed myself, then cook, then feed others. I have a friend who does
deep-fried turkey... and from experience I can say Tommy has got all
this down to an art!!
I often tell older bros. and sisters in our fellowship that by now,
they've learned to do their own Bible studies, use a concordance,
basically do the hard work of books, commentaries, online web
research and etc., and don't need me or other leaders to do their
work/study/thinking -for- them. I think that's maturity, a mark of
discipleship in Jesus.
GKB had a great show the other night, packed house, very kind and
receptive.
As often happens, there were a couple interesting guys, one to my
left, the other to my right. In between songs the bro. on my left
heckled, made comments about me being a hypocrite due to talking
about sin as I did, specifically re. Christians sinning. The poor
bro. on my right began to chime in cuz the first guy was, and this
fella was just plain drunk out of his mind.
I ended up having to speak directly to the bro. on my left who
wasn't making sense, much less being "in order" on the evening, but
he rather kept it up.
A bit later as I was about to preach, I tried to say with love yet
directness, that if folks weren't quiet during the message, I'd be
sorry yet would have to ask them to leave. I also told both fellas
to come see me and chat after the show, that'd I be happy to hear
and talk with them about anything they'd like to discuss.
At the conclusion of the message a number of people prayed to follow
Jesus, recommit their lives to Him, and so forth.
There were a load of old friends, some new ones and just a -lot- of
folks chatting with us. The drunken man quietly left though I
reminded him to come see me if he wanted to talk. The other guy had
disappeared.
Just as we were about to hop in the vehicles and head home, the more
lucid guy re-appeared.
In short, he told me I had a lot to learn, and that though he
sinned, it was never "purposely, by choice". He told me he'd
repented the moment he got saved, and that was that. So I asked him
if he only "made mistakes" seeing that he clearly believed a
Christian could be literally "sinless"? He refused to answer me
after I repeated the question and waited for him to respond. In
short, continued in the contentious manner he had been in that
night.
The saddest part of such situations isn't even (and it's truly sad!)
the person's own sense of deception or doctrinal error, nor even
that others might believe such things, nor even the person's
rudeness or being out of order. The real problem is that in a
setting where so many very young believers, a lot of backslidden
Christians and even worse, unbelievers have shown up to hear music
and some Good News sometimes have to deal with believers who are
determined to rant, "act out" and generally prophesy- as though the
Holy Spirit only speaks through them.
I doubt this bro. would agree with me showing up in the park as he's
addressing a crowd if I'd do to him what he did that night. But I
also think he may have had some basic mental/emotional issues. Well,
God knows. We just have to protect people in such situations, and
recognize that God isn't the author of confusion but peace.
But the punchline was when I asked him who he was accountable to. He
instantly said "Jesus. Nobody else". I told him that was quite
unbiblical, quoted a load of verses that clearly state we are all
called by God Himself, to submit to one another as well as to older
believers, etc., but he would have none of it.
It was the age-old "I demand you hear and submit to me and my words,
but I will never submit to others and their words" and of course "I
have the deeper truth in Christ, you don't, and that's that" sort of
thing.
Too many folks like this have nobody to pray for them, nor people
gracious but direct enough to love AND challenge them re. the
fallacy of their position. BOTH of us need more "fruit of the
Spirit", i.e., God's love, and greater patience with those we
disagree with.
I'm praying for Brian... and I hope he's praying for me as I asked
him to at the end of the night.
I got an email from a bro. telling me how loving we were in dealing
with the situation, but I'm certain I could have been more loving
and kind too.
In any case, God's grace (as I preached that night) is something to
be shared, not simply believed. Loving "the least of these" is akin
to loving Jesus... and I want to do that more and better!
Of course, it may be that I never sinned at all that night... just
made a mistake here or there :) :) :)
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